Billionaire Says His Long-Delayed Titanic II Ship Will Be Antidote to Woke Politics – Rolling Stone
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It seems reasonable to expect that just about anything can and will go wrong with a full-size replica of a cruise ship that famously sank on its maiden voyage, killing more than 1,500 people aboard. But Titanic II, Australian mining billionaire Clive Palmers proposed heir to the original RMS Titanic, hasnt faced a disaster so far because over the decade and change that Palmer has been pitching it, nothing has been built.
First announced in 2012 for the 100th anniversary of the Titanics fateful voyage, Palmer envisions the Titanic II, operated by his company Blue Star Line, as a historically accurate tribute to its namesake, right down to the cramped steerage cabins. Of course, there will be some tweaks to ensure it reaches its destination this time: Palmer wants the ship to have cutting-edge navigation equipment, safety systems, and plenty of lifeboats. Throughout the many snags in the project including payment disputes and scrapped plans to build in a Chinese shipyard very little of this core idea has changed, with Palmer brushing off skeptics by reminding them that he has the money and determination to see it through.
What has changed somewhat is how Palmer, who in the past decade has served in Australian parliament and chaired a right-wing political party he founded, describes the symbolism of the Titanic(s). In a March 13 press conference at the Sydney Opera House to announce his recommitment to reconstructing the doomed ocean liner, Palmer said it would be a beacon of hope amid war in Ukraine and Gaza, bring people together after the era of Covid lockdowns, and embody traditional values as opposed to woke politics. Here, he talks with Rolling Stone about what he thinks Titanic II crossing the Atlantic into New York Habor would mean to the world.
This has been in the works for a long time, but how did you originally get interested in the Titanic? Its very topical. I originally got interested because we know how to make war see whats happening in Ukraine and Gaza. Its much more difficult to make peace in the world. And the Titanic is an international symbol. Its a symbol of love and peace, really. I mean, the movie, everyone knows the Jack and Rose story. All of us have a Jack and Rose story of our own. So I thought itd be good to do something to promote those aspects in life. Secondly, we need to remember the people of the Titanic, and some of the values that we question in society today disappearing, such as courage and self-sacrifice. You remember the musicians on the Titanic that stood there at their station, playing Nearer My God to Thee? They were more concerned about the people that were with than themselves. Were running our culture into a self-centered society, so we want to refocus on those things. We thought we could design the whole ship and have it ready in three to four years construction. But it took about five to six years to design. Originally, the challenge was much greater because we had to incorporate all the safety provisions and still keep the design of the ship the same that was a lot harder than we thought. And we know what happened with cruise shipping and Covid, we had to stop and pause and see what was happening, but today shipping has come back. It gives us the time to pull those plans off the shelf and to get the project moving.
With all these delays you had, how did you get back on track? Well, Ive got a lot of money. And at my age, at 70, I should try to do something with it thats positive for the world. But its not unusual that people my age build the boat, sail the world, climb a mountain, do something like that. I did promise the people of New York [in 2012], we launched it on the [USS] Intrepid, One day youll be able to say that you were there where it all began. The Titanic sailed up the Hudson River into New York Harbor, completed the journey. A lot of the original descendants of people who died on the Titanic, some of the best-known names in New York, wanted to buy their tickets and they offered millions of dollars. Surprisingly, we had an enormous number of people wanting to go a third class. One of the big things we found in the plans as we tried to build Titanic was a big square, going down five decks we didnt know what it was for, but we discovered a flooring that had one word: Potatoes. That was the food store for all the third class: you could have sauted potatoes, fried potatoes, potatoes, mashed potatoes, but all you had was potatoes in third class. A lot of people saying they wanted tickets at that time were New York stockbrokers stuck in a dingy office all day, talking to other people about nothing, I guess, wanting to get back to some reality, some sort of human nature. Because we will have Irish dancing, we will have one-to-one contact in the cabin, the two of you sharing together and 30 of you sharing a bathroom. Thats part of the experience that part of the Titanic. Its not the luxury part.
Some billionaires are really focused on the future space travel, advanced AI. But it sounds like you really want to look to the past. I want to look to the present and the future. Look, Im saying these things are important, you know, to touch someone, to give them a hug. Doesnt matter whether youre on the moon or youre going to Mars, right? You still meet people, you still need to respect them. You still need to value that sort of human relationship. I think one of our problems in our society that we dont value that sense. We want to challenge the whole concept that whats important is money for the sake of money without any reasonable purpose. Then, of course, weve got to remember the Titanic has played an enormous role in safety in shipping. So many people would have perished if those changes werent put into place, lifeboats and bulkheads and things like that. So weve got to recognize that from a disaster, we learn how we can make our lives better.
Has anyone tried to talk you out of this? My wife, but thats purely for selfish reasons, so Id spend more time with her and the kids. I just think Ive got the money. Ive got a limited lifespan. Unlike Rupert Murdoch, I cant live to 150. I might as well spend the money Ive got doing something positive. We can certainly fund this without any problems, its no strain on me at all. All Ive got to do is write the check. Well, I want to do more than that. I want to be a bit of an inspiration to people and say, This is what you can do. I think its a great, a great project, and its so popular.
I know youre not worried about profit, but how much of your own money have you already spent? Were allocating at the moment a couple of hundred million dollars. And certainly theres more available. But youve got to remember the Titanic is a 60,000-ton vessel. Well, it was actually 48,000 originally, but one of the problems we had with the Titanic is that you have to make it safe. Youll remember, in the movie you had the guy in the crows nest saying Iceberg! That was because from the from the bridge, you couldnt see over the bow. We cant do that today. So we had to put a whole new deck in the Titanic. And its got a lot of the modern conveniences that you want. Were going to make sure that in every room therell be a little panel that will tell you the history of the person who occupied your cabin. Did they survive, did they prevail? Everyone will get a costume so that they can come up to dinner, and it will be a real experience for them. One of the worst experiences, of course, on the Titanic was delousing. They took the third class up on deck and sprayed them in their underpants and bras. So depending on the weather, well have delousing for our third class, too.
Are you interested in getting any outside financing, or do you just want to be in complete control? I dont really want to be in control so much, Im not that sort of person. But Ive got too much money. So I dont need any other money. We dont need to raise any funds. We dont need to take mums and dads money, if anyone loses any money, its [me], and Im happy to lose money at this age. We can make instant decisions about what we want to do without worrying about the consequences. We havent got to have a committee sits here and says, Oh, should we do this? What will the SEC say? Itll be a Covid vaccine-free environment.
Vaccine-free how? We wont have any. We dont believe people should be compelled. You might be aware of it, but I recently funded a case in Queensland where we had the vaccines declared unlawful because we believe that impeded on individual choice and freedom. And the courts agreed with us as well, the superior court so its the first in the world. That was another controversial thing. [Palmer put $2.5-$3 million toward a successful legal challenge brought by police and ambulance service workers who said they faced disciplinary action up to termination for refusing to comply with a vaccine mandate.]
But will vaccinated people be allowed on the ship? Yeah, weve got to extend our hand in love and friendship for people being vaccinated despite the side effects. We have to look after them. And theyre all good people. Were all the same really, like white, green, yellow, whatever it is to embrace each other.
This gets to something you said in your recent press conference, which is that the Titanic reflects traditional values instead of woke values. So can you explain what that means? Theres been a concept in society that you can cancel people. I think you know what I mean by canceled people, and we think thats a terrible concept. The United States was founded on the rights of men to be different. The diversity that weve had in our economy, in our intellectual development has really meant thats developed our society to a higher level. Im talking about Western society in general. So the French Revolution, the American Revolution, all those things were brought about by individuals [claiming] their rights to express an opinion or view. I mean, you should have the right to be wrong.
In that same press conference, it seems like you were also ready to argue with some of the journalists, or that you take issue with people who are skeptical of the project. Do the naysayers get you down? Doesnt get me down. I think the press are not relevant to me from that context. A lot of people go out to the press because they want to raise money or public support. Youve got to admire the journalist, because a journalists job is to create a bit of controversy. I dont need to have any bad feelings towards that, theyre just doing their job. If this was a project where public money was going into it, [there would be] a greater justification for journalists to be skeptical.
There are people who view the Titanic as a symbol of mankinds hubris. What would you say to that kind of thinking? Its up to everybody to decide for themselves, will they buy tickets, where they travel, whether its got value to them and their family. People really dont get a unified position on hardly anything. If you go to a communist regime, were supposed to have that, I guess. That might be enforced, not by free will. We want people and journalists to be free. I mean, look at New Zealand, all the television stations there are closing, theyll maybe have one government service. So its getting more and more like a Stalin situation. So thats not good. [Newshub, one of two free TV news stations in the country, will be shuttered in the coming months by owner Warner Bros. Discovery.] We need to respect and cherish all opinions, and society should benefit by that and get to the right decision. Thats how I look at it. Im not frightened of controversy.
No, I didnt get that impression. Youve said a lot of people are interested in this maiden voyage. Is there anyone you can share whos expressed an interest? James Cameron, maybe? He hasnt expressed an interest, I can tell you that. We previously had the great-granddaughter of the Unsinkable Molly Brown, who was on the Titanic and went around rescuing people in the lifeboats in the first World War, the U.S. Navy christened a ship after her. Weve had Bruce Ismay, who owned the White Star Line, his great-great grandson wants to be involved in the project and has given us support. Its a funny project. To go back into the past to appreciate it, to learn from it and realize that diversity is a good thing. And were slowly evolving as a race. We dont necessarily need to go to Mars to be happy. The pursuit of happiness is what we should be working for as a human civilization. That should be our top bar. And hopefully the Titanic will make a lot of people happy.
I understand what youre saying about wanting this project to be uplifting for the entire world. Has anyone ever made the argument to you that you could be spending this money in ways that more directly benefit people who are poor, unhoused, suffering in war zones? We do spend money on that. I spend millions of dollars on that more than I think you do. But one thing that you cannot take from anyone is the human spirit. And in one of these war zones, when youre down and out, youre up against it, you need to have a spirit that drives you on, something youre looking at [that shows] life can get better. That makes life worth living on this planet. The Titanic reinforces some of those values for all the world. Same as human thought, freedom of thought and things that stimulate the heart and soul are important. I dont know if that answers it. But its just as important as food. I realize Im contentious in the U.S. context.
Have you ever taken a submersible down to see the wreck of the Titanic? I wouldnt do it. No. Because from my point of view, I think thats a graveyard. And we dont want to exploit people who have died. I dont think it gets us anywhere, really. What were trying to do is to talk about life today, about people living now. Because its a pivotal time in history. I believe weve got to learn from how history repeats itself, time and again. Theres a time when humans were tested. They prevailed.
Youre talking about history repeating itself. We had this [OceanGate] submersible that went down last year, with everyone dying. Do you see a lesson in that, in trying to return to the past so directly? One thing about the Titanic was that it didnt have the safety controls that it should have. And you look at submersible, the same was true, that it didnt have the safety or certification it needed. I think its a message for all of us, that when we go into the unexpected, if were going to challenge nature, we need to do it in a responsible manner. We need to have our authorities checking these sort of things out. Their design wasnt what it should have been. If you look at James Cameron and other people who dive on the Titanic, theyre going in very safe submersibles. And, of course, why was that? [OceanGate] were trying to cut the budget and make more profit for the company. And thats the wrong thing to do.
Ive been noticing this painting over your shoulder. Can I ask what that boat is in the picture? Thats the Titanics sister ship, the Olympic. It became a hospital ship in World War II and was sunk by the Germans off the coast of Ireland. [The Olympic, originally a commercial vessel that served as a troop ship during WWI, was decommissioned in 1935. The Britannic, another sister vessel, served as a hospital ship in WWI and sank in 1916 off the coast of Greece after striking a German mine. Neither served in WWII.]
Is that story meaningful to you as well, the hospital ship? Again, its one of self-service. As I said, today youve got a lot of concerns, its going to be about the war in Ukraine, how its straining the U.S. economy. Same thing is happening in Gaza, people have a lot to be concerned about, and certainly what happened to Israel wasnt very good either. The message is weve got to realize that were all human beings. Weve all got the same needs. And basically, for me, its if youve got someone that loves you, somewhere we can sleep at night, with a good meal, the rest of its an illusion. Thats part of the message that we can send out with the Titanic. And, of course, weve also got a lot of people who make movies about Titanic that were talking to at the moment. This story is going to get bigger from here.
How many times have you seen the James Cameron movie? Ive only seen it twice. Molly Browns great-granddaughter was very grateful to him for reinvigorating it, bringing it to life. So I think hes done a great job. But it shouldnt be a competition between me and James Cameron, or someone else.
Well, I hope when Titanic II is built I can come and see it. Well have it in New York Harbor, so well reserve a position for you when it sails up the Hudson River. You can stand on the top deck and say, Wooo! King of the world!
Update March 28, 12:08am ET: This story has been updated to amend comments about the history of Titanic sister ships Olympic and Britannica.
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Billionaire Says His Long-Delayed Titanic II Ship Will Be Antidote to Woke Politics - Rolling Stone
